My Views

There has been a lot of back and forth going on here lately about religion. I know nobody has asked, and nobody probably cares, but I’m going to share my views on religion. I was raised Catholic. I was made to go to church, get communion, be an altar boy (No, none of priests ever touched me, so don’t ask), become confirmed, and I hated every second of it. It was all boring as hell. As soon as I was able to quit going, I quit going.

I have a big problem with religion, not just Catholic, but any and all organized religions. My problem with them is that they try to tell people how to worship God. To me, worshipping God should be a personal thing, something each person decides how to do on their own. Not only that, but they also spend most of their time trying to tell everyone how to live their lives. “Do this, don’t do that.” How I live my life is not going to be determined by any except for me.

Now, anytime people talk to me, or ask me, about religion, I just tell them that I worship Thor. I do this for two reasons: One, it’s funny. Two, it usually stops all further conversation. Now, most people don’t believe me when I first tell them this. The trick to selling it is to act outraged at the comic book/movie version of Thor. It also helps that I have read up a little on Norse mythology and can spout a few facts about him. Either way, it’s a very short talk.

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22 comments on “My Views

  1. twindaddy says:

    Yeah, that’s one way to avoid the awkwardness that comes with those conversations.

  2. lamehousewife says:

    thank you for being honest…honesty is priceless to me…God bless…

  3. Null says:

    Out of curiosity, how did you come to the conclusion that “worshipping God should be a personal thing, something each person decides how to do on their own”?

    • Because each person is different. What works for some, doesn’t work for others.

      • Null says:

        True, but the object of worship is always the same: God. Should the method of worship depend on the individual worshipper or on God? And why?

        • I think it should depend on the individual because we have no idea how God wants us to worship. All we know is how men have said God wants us to worship, their interpretation of what God wants. If that person feels that their church (whichever one they go to) has it right, then, by all means, they should go to that church and follow that church’s teachings. If not, they should worship however they choose to.

          • Null says:

            The claim that we have “no idea” how God wants us to worship Him is a bold one. Even twindaddy claimed to know that the Ten Commandments (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=NIV) are God’s Word, and if that’s the case then you do have a good idea how God wants us to worship Him. Incidentally, one of those Commandments is to keep holy the Sabbath. Some interpretation of that Commandment is inevitable, but you do have an idea that you need to do something to keep the Sabbath holy.

            Your claim also raises many fundamental questions. Why would God expect us to worship him but provide us with “no idea” how to do so? If you have “no idea” how to worship God then you can’t know anything about Him…so what are you worshipping? If we all have “no idea” how to worship God then what makes your personal interpretation any more valid than anyone else’s personal interpretation (which may be to organize a religion and tell everyone to go to church on Sunday)?

          • The Ten Commandments are the word of God, but they don’t say anything about how he wants us to worship him. Even “Keep holy the Sabbath” is very vague. In the bible verse you posted up there, all it says is that you shouldn’t work on the Sabbath and that you should keep it holy. How does that tell us anything about how he wants us to worship him, other than what day he wants us to worship him?

            “Why would God expect us to worship him but provide us with “no idea” how to do so?”
            God gave us all free will, so maybe he wants us to figure it out for ourselves.

            “If you have “no idea” how to worship God then you can’t know anything about Him…so what are you worshipping?”
            I know he has rules that he wants me to follow, and I think that following those rules is a much better way of worshipping him than saying certain prayers, or singing certain songs, or eating a nasty tasting wafer.

            “If we all have “no idea” how to worship God then what makes your personal interpretation any more valid than anyone else’s personal interpretation (which may be to organize a religion and tell everyone to go to church on Sunday)?”
            I never said my interpretation was any more valid than anyone else’s. I believe that everyone should worship the way they feel is best, whether it’s to go to a church or not. That’s just my opinion. I never said my opinion was any better than anyone else’s. I also don’t have a problem with other people not agreeing with me. They’re entitled to their opinions, just as I am mine.

          • Null says:

            First of all, thanks for responding and sorry for all my questions. I’m just trying to figure out what you believe and how you came to your conclusions.

            “In the bible verse you posted up there, all it says is that you shouldn’t work on the Sabbath and that you should keep it holy. How does that tell us anything about how he wants us to worship him, other than what day he wants us to worship him?”

            As instructions for worshipping God the Ten Commandments say (a) don’t work on the Sabbath or have anyone else work on the Sabbath, (b) don’t worship any other gods, (c) and don’t make any images and worship them. Other parts of the Old Testament include additional instructions, though if you’re anything like twindaddy you probably do not accept much of the Old Testament as God’s Word (or do you?).

            “God gave us all free will, so maybe he wants us to figure it out for ourselves.”

            “Maybe”? What is your rationale for this speculation? What did/do you do to try to figure it out for yourself?

            Free will is a bit of a non sequitur here anyway. Free will means we can choose to worship God or not, but it has nothing to do with our ability to know how to worship God.

            “I know he has rules that he wants me to follow”

            Okay, what rules are you talking about? And how did you come to know that they are God’s rules if He gave you “no idea” how to worship Him?

            “I never said my interpretation was any more valid than anyone else’s.”

            I have several questions about this, but before I can ask them — are you a relativist?

          • twindaddy says:

            Good grief. Is he on trial? Is it essential for you to know why he believes as he does? Why can’t you accept that people believe what they believe and let it be?

          • Null says:

            Of course he’s not on trial. I’m just trying to have a friendly discussion on a topic he started talking about on his own initiative. He doesn’t have to answer my questions but has responded to me several times so far and is free to stop responding whenever he wants.

            I didn’t say his opinion is wrong or that he’s not entitled to it. If that was the case then I’d be attacking his position rather than asking about it. I’m just curious how he came to his conclusions.

            You don’t even know what I believe on this issue. I don’t agree with his opinion completely (that would be amazingly coincidental) but I do think he has some good points. Skepticism of authority can be healthy and I do not think that attending a church every week is vital to the worship of God. But I don’t have the same low opinion he has of “organized religion” and I’m trying to understand that.

          • twindaddy says:

            “But I don’t have the same low opinion he has of organized religion” and I’m trying to understand that.”

            Look at the history of organized religion. It’s a history of wars, hatred, and bigotry. http://godandwar.wikispaces.com/List+of+Religious+Wars

            Secondly, there is the hypocrisy of the church, which you and I have discussed, so there’s no need to go there again. Basically, they don’t practice what they preach.

            I guess I don’t understand the incessant questioning of why people believe what they believe. Isn’t it enough to know? And then once you have answers, you have even more questions.

            Our beliefs our shaped by the things we’ve observed and the things that happened to us while we were a part of the church. I can’t speak for Revis, but I’m not quite ready to write my autobiography quite yet.

          • Null says:

            “Our beliefs our shaped by the things we’ve observed and the things that happened to us while we were a part of the church. I can’t speak for Revis, but I’m not quite ready to write my autobiography quite yet.”

            I understand that your beliefs were shaped by what you observed from the church, and that’s actually why I’m so interested in Revis’ reasoning on organized religion. Although you are brothers and presumably had mostly the same experiences that led you to reject organized religion, you cite different reasons for that rejection: you cite primarily hypocrisy and Revis cites primarily a restriction of his free will.

            I also understand that you may not want to share your experiences. I’m not asking you to do that, but because I don’t know what you experienced I have to ask more questions to figure out where your beliefs come from on a logical basis.

          • “though if you’re anything like twindaddy you probably do not accept much of the Old Testament as God’s Word (or do you?).”
            I don’t accept that much of the Old Testament is even true, much less the word of God.

            “Okay, what rules are you talking about? And how did you come to know that they are God’s rules if He gave you “no idea” how to worship Him?”
            The rules I was referring to are the Ten Commandments.

            “I have several questions about this, but before I can ask them — are you a relativist?”
            No. What I meant is that I don’t consider my opinion any better than anyone else’s.

            “Free will is a bit of a non sequitur here anyway. Free will means we can choose to worship God or not, but it has nothing to do with our ability to know how to worship God.”

            twindaddy is right that this has gone on too long, so I will just summarize my beliefs and why I feel that way with this: Free will is not a non sequiter here. Free will is the basis for my belief. Free will doesn’t just cover whether we believe in God, it covers everything that involves choice: the way we think, act, talk. What organized religions do is try to take away God’s gift of free will. They tell people how to think, act, talk, and even believe. “You must believe this or you’re going to Hell.”, or “If you don’t believe that, you’re going to Hell.” I don’t want to have anything to do with any organization that tries to take away my free will.

          • Null says:

            “this has gone on too long”

            Fair enough. Thanks for answering my questions. I apologize if I come across as putting you on trial — I’m not trying to get you to go to church or anything, but as a member of an organized religion (specifically, the one you left) I am interested in and curious about your reasons for rejecting any sort of organized religion.

  4. beefybooyawn says:

    Amen.

    I think the point he’s trying to make Null, is that if people want to go to Church and worship that way, that’s their choice. It’s just not his.

    Revis, thanks for that. That’s exactly how I feel as well. And I’m a baptized Mormon, so I’m sure you can understand how quickly I wanted to get out of that.

    • Almost everyone I know who was raised Mormon (which isn’t a whole lot) has said the same thing. If I cared at all, I might try to learn more about the Mormon church to try and figure out why that is.

      • beefybooyawn says:

        It’s just another organized religion that wants you to do what they want you to do, and I’m not about that. That’s all, really. Aside from that, the Mormon people in general are all really nice and even the church isn’t that bad. But I can’t do organized religion. Plus, once you join the church, you’re in it for life unless you write a letter to the head people and tell them specifically that you want out. I never did that, and like bloodhounds, no matter where I move they find me and try to get me back in the church. They’re relentless.

  5. twindaddy says:

    I think you should post your “pass the pipe” story….

  6. Lorre says:

    Thor…how clever.
    I guess you don’t want me to give Kirk Cameron your email address then?

  7. CJ says:

    WOW! I thought your post was hilarious, then I read the comments. Good Lord!

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